#math - Fri 6 Apr 2007 between 01:53 and 02:02

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HiLander......
koroailndx: what if an alien race does math
HiLanderphysics is no more or less true than math
WILDSTYLEKasadkad` exactly. The exhibition of a proof is the ultimate criteria of falsifiability.
korowould that make math 'exist'?
HiLander(actually, physics is a little less true)
ailndxHiLander: its based on the study of objects of reality, math aint.. its just applied as a tool to help use study physics for example
WILDSTYLEI think perhaps you've misunderstood Popper's meaning Kasadkad`. He posited that the ability to show whether a given hypothesis is false is the ultimate test of science (this is where the demcaration of science and pseudo-science stems from).
So in the case of a math proof you can say with certainty whether it is falsifiable.
ailndxkoro: if you learn the alien our math system.. sure, but thats pretty doubtful, isnt it.. at least today
KasadkadYeah, but with science you're never guaranteed that a certain theory is correct
All you can do is collect data relevant to it and see what it points to
WILDSTYLEWith much of science, Kasadkad yes. With inductive science, yes.
But math is not inductive. *snicker*
;)
akumiKasadka, if you want to define a science that way, go ahead
HiLanderailndx: exactly. physics is just a list of observations
KasadkadHow else would it be defined, akumi?
HiLanderwhich can be completely mistaken
akumibut let's please not have a retarded discussion about it :o
however you like maybe?
KasadkadNo, words mean things
koroailndx: you're not talking about math then, you're talking about logic
but really, i'll shut up now
ailndxHiLander: it can be mistaken, but they exists in the way that we know it. And the objects of reality that the study focuses on will exists whether or not we study it
KasadkadI think my preferred definition of science is: anything that 1) happens at universities 2) uses lots of statistics and measurements
akumigood for you
KasadkadAlso wearing lab coats counts for 100 extra Science Points
WILDSTYLEThat's a pretty boring definition Kasadkad. But I still think that Math fits that definition of science.
HiLanderailndx: that's quite an assumption that's not supported empirically.
ailndxHiLander: it is?
HiLanderand that statement applies just as validly to math
it can't be supported empirically.
the nature of an empirical argument is observation.
you can't have an empirical result without some kind of observation
ailndxwell the science itself, but what we study in for example biology is not created by us. Math is purely made by humanity
WILDSTYLEYou can have an a posteriori result... which confounds the situation.
HiLanderi could just as validly say that if humanity didn't exist, unicorns would.
i never claimed math is made by humanity. i claim it's observed
ailndxyou think math is a science?

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