#lisp - Sun 18 Feb 2007 between 12:15 and 12:39

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luispeter_12: I thank PG for introducing me to Lisp but I curse me for telling me that CLOS sucks without proper reasoning.
*curse him
peter_12jonshea: what did he say?
luis: what is his reasoning?
luispeter_12: he doesn't offer any explanation, that's what I meant.
jonsheaHe says he's using it for his website already, he's got another big project he's working on it with, and that he'll release it when the other project is released.
peter_12ahh
jonshea: thanks
jonsheaHe also said that it's all built out of macros on scheme.
peter_12so it is a more fundamental Lisp dialect then Common Lisp?
_deepfire"typical graham"
pkhuongwell, that will be fun to debug.
jonsheaI'm not saying I agree with PG, or that I think "Arc" is going to be anything spectacular, but he says he finds it really painful in comparison to program in straight scheme.
peter_12why was CLOS incorporated into Common Lisp when it could have remained a library? It seems like by including it in the standard then the language is pushing a particular paradigm
beachpeter_12: there are great advantages to having it part of the standard.
_deepfireiirc, conditions partly based on CLOS
beachthe condition system is a great example, yes.
peter_12so other parts of the language depend on the inclusion of CLOS in the standard?
frodefactually I believe they carefully worded the spec. of conditions such as not to require CLOS.
beachpeter_12: of course.
peter_12I guess it wouldn't have to be that way
it could just be a bolt on part
_deepfirefrodef, i thought it was about simplifying the implementation
beachthat would have been very unfortunate indeed, to make the most powerful aspect to CL a "bolt-on" feature.
peter_12: may I suggest you read the CLIM spec to really see what CLOS is about.
I am fairly convinced something like CLIM would be very hard to write without CLOS.
_deepfirebeach, btw, do you have a point of view on presence of deep equality predicates for CLOS objects?
beach_deepfire: I essentially agree with Kent Pitman.
I often do :)
Except when it comes to open-source software :)
luisHeh, I just thinking about that.
*was
elliptichow can I know the type (returned values and argument) on SBCL ? (On CMU there is extensions::info)
+of a function
luiselliptic: #'describe
for starters
ellipticok
I will search in this direction :)
Good direction luis thank you very much and shame on me :)
frodefright, everyone knows that only girls ask for directions!

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