abz | MarcWeber: joined |

dino- | glguy: Oh come on now, the bleu-class cheeses are delicious. |

Saizan | hxt is very nice the moment you realize it's like a list monad with arrow combinators |

emu | count halting allPrograms / count (not . halting) allPrograms |

procyon112 | hehe |

chessguy | lol |

Saizan | you can calculate the chaitin constant! :D |

monochrom | I have a code optimiser that simplifies that code to 0. |

kscaldef | Saizan: I'm not sure I have enough haskell experience for that realization to apply |

procyon112 | Saizan: Isn't it effectively 1? |

Heffalump | so, arrows are supposed to be good at tracking static properties of functions, right? |

emu | count halting allPrograms / length allPrograms, sorry |

chessguy | it's oo/oo |

emu | counting and length are probably not good ways to put this |

Saizan | procyon112, isn't it the probability that a random program halts? and is quite impossible to know its value |

monochrom | lim n->oo (count programs under n that halts / n) |

emu | that sounds better |

action | monochrom was a mathematician |

monochrom | was a mathematician |

action | emu is not |

emu | is not |

procyon112 | Saizan: The research I've seen estimates the value as infintessimally close to 1. |

action | monochrom is not |

monochrom | is not |

Syzygy- | monochrom: Was? What happened? |

monochrom | I entered computer science. |

action | dylan wants a new job |

dylan | wants a new job |

procyon112 | Saizan: So, all programs are non-halting, except for the infinitely small subset we are actually interested in ;) |

emu | that speaks about decidable languages then too? |

procyon112 | Essentually, if you introduce general recursion into the language, then the the ratio of non-halting programs to halting approaches 1 as the allowable size of the programs approach infinity. |

Heffalump | dylan: what's wrong with your current one? |

emu | approaches 1? that would be 1:1 |

Heffalump | procyon112: is the argument easy to summarise? |

procyon112 | emu: er... sorry. ratio of non-halting to total count.. my bad Heffalump: I've only seen it done experimentally.. I'm not sure if it's proven. |

emu | whacha do, pick a compact representation of a turing machine and simulate n-bit ones ? *all n-bit ones for each n they still need some kind of bound |

Saizan | yeah, you generate all bit-strings of lenght < n and see if they halt |

procyon112 | emu: I haven't personally, but I've seen a few papers that did more or less that for different representations. |

emu | then you're testing linear bounded automatons |

procyon112 | emu: I'm more interested in the practical applications than the proof, so whether the limit is assymptotically 1 or not is less important to me than "it looks like it, so it's pretty close to something like that", since I'm developing large GP trees. |